Something Strange About France

They may be identifying with their Catholic ancestors. I've never been to Scotland, but I participated in the Highland games (when I was a little younger and a little more limber) because I have some Scotch/Scottish ancestry. Is it Scotch or Scottish? Old School.
I say that all the time now and people say, "Do whaaaat?"

Dude, the highland games are awesome! Tree throwing and stone launching and kilt wrestling - too crazy. Love it.

dude, the reasons are so many. within the american baptist and in the great awakening history are the emphasis on individual faith and commitment as opposed to being part of a "covenant community" whether you like it or not. you know that france is a secular country and it's also a catholic country. get this, I met a french graduate student (committed atheist, um also not self identified catholic... can't take anything for granted) who let me in on the fact that catholic high schools are fully funded in france. politically they have no concept of separation of church and state as liberals talk about here or of freedom of religion as our constitution writers envisioned (talk to dr brand about what part early american baptist theology played in that). theologically they are casualties, um, heirs of german-type critical scholarship schools which seeped into european seminaries pre vatican 2 which can be described as functional atheist Christianity. that stat doesn't surprise me

Jean, very helpful insights. Sort of like German's who are "Lutheran" and no longer believe in God.

I'll voice a slightly different analysis. Covenant communities don't undermine personal responbility or individual faith and repentence. The PCA church, for example, is extremely covenantal (paedocommunion and everything), but the members are hardly becoming atheistic presbyterians.

CCs do, however, create a space for those who no longer believe to still identify with that community. If you don't believe you can still go to church on easter and christmas, when you want to have your kids baptized and confirmed, and when you get married and die; they won't turn you away. The failure of the church here is in letting people know what it means to be a part of a covenant community. Part of that covenant is the sacraments and the word, and the other part is the submission of one's life to God, through submitting to Jesus Christ, that results in submitting to the Church.

So, I wouldn't blame the idea of a covenant community for the loss of individual faith; I would say it allows for the possibility of an atheistic catholic (jew, presbyterian, or baptist...all of which I've known).

What I don't get is why an athiest would /want/ to be identified as a Catholic.

Ben, good thoughts. My reason for posting the quote was your last statement.

I agree with the idea that the covenant community is not the problem. The type and way of life of that community (ie what is the nature of the covenant espoused) is very important. As you said, covenant is about word and sacrament - and submission to God. I would only add submission to one's life to God, by the work of the Holy Spirit (regeneration and conversion), through the mediation of Jesus Christ, that results in submitting to his authority in the church. He is our prophet, priest, and King - his ministry therefore happens through word, sacrament, and elders.

Anyway, I really don't know what I would do if I quit believing (scares me what I would do actually) - but I probably would not be at mass.

Thanks brother